Legislature(2003 - 2004)
03/13/2003 03:50 PM Senate STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
March 13, 2003
3:50 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Gary Stevens, Chair
Senator John Cowdery, Vice Chair
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Gretchen Guess
Senator Lyman Hoffman
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 83
"An Act naming the Sven Haakanson, Sr. Airport at Old Harbor."
MOVED SB 83 OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 99
"An Act expressing legislative intent regarding privately
operated correctional facility space and services; relating to
the development and financing of privately operated correctional
facility space and services; authorizing the Department of
Corrections to enter into an agreement for the confinement and
care of prisoners in privately operated correctional facility
space; and providing for an effective date."
MOVED SB 99 OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 65
"An Act authorizing the Department of Corrections to enter into
agreements with municipalities for new or expanded public
correctional facilities in the Fairbanks North Star Borough, the
Matanuska-Susitna Borough, Bethel, and the Municipality of
Anchorage."
MOVED SB 65 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
SB 83 - See Transportation minutes dated 3/4/03
SB 99 - See State Affairs minutes dated 3/11/03
SB 65 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/20/03 and 3/11/03
WITNESS REGISTER
Marvin Wiebe
Senior Vice President Cornell Companies
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 99
Dee Hubbard
P.O. Box 88
Sterling, AK 99672
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 99 and SB 65
Mako Haggerty
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 99
David Katzeek
Alaska Native Brotherhood #2
6590 Glacier Highway
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 99
Jim Lecrone
6010 Staedmem
Anchorage, AK 99513
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 99
Frank Smith
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 99 and SB 65
William Dunham
P.O. Box 27
Seward, AK 99664
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 99
George Wright
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 99
Ben Butler
Whittier City Council
P.O. Box 608
Whittier, AK 99693
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 99
Leonard Jones
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 99 and SB 65
Brad Wilson
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 99
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 03-8, SIDE A
CHAIR GARY STEVENS called the Senate State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:50 p.m. Present were Senators
Dyson, Hoffman and Chair Gary Stevens. Senator Guess arrived
momentarily.
He announced the first order of business was SB 83.
SB 83-SVEN HAAKANSON AIRPORT AT OLD HARBOR
CHAIR GARY STEVENS, bill sponsor, paraphrased from the sponsor
statement:
SB 83, "An Act naming the Sven Haakanson, Sr. Airport
at Old Harbor," will name the state airport in the
City of Old Harbor in memory of Sven Haakanson, who
passed away on November 23, 2002.
A lifelong resident of Old Harbor, and community mayor
for 27 years, Sven Haakason was well known in Alaska.
Sven also played a vital role in establishing
corporations and associations that have become a
familiar and important part of Alaska's corporate and
nonprofit world. He was one of the founders of the
Kodiak Area Native Association (KANA), Koniag Inc.,
and served on the boards of several corporations and
organizations on Kodiak Island. In 2002, Sven was
named the Elder of the Year by the Koniag Native
Corporation.
SB 83, which is supported by the people of Old Harbor,
will recognize a man who gave so much of his time and
energy to the community. Passage of this bill will
ensure that Sven Haakanson Sr.'s memory will live on
for generations to come. I urge your support.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS noted letters of support in members' packets.
There was no further testimony. He asked for a motion.
SENATOR FRED DYSON made a motion to move SB 83 from committee
with individual recommendations and zero fiscal note.
There being no objection, it was so ordered.
SB 99-CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES
CHAIR GARY STEVENS announced this was the second hearing for SB
99. He asked Mr. Wiebe to come forward and continue his
testimony from the previous hearing.
MR. MARVIN WIEBE, Senior Vice President Cornell Companies,
recapped the company history in Alaska.
He addressed the following issues:
· How a private company saves money for the state
· What the timing is for the project and what that means
· Level and quality of service
Cornell Companies' wages and benefits are competitive in the
private sector, but less than the government might pay. He said,
"Our programs for our employees, our health care plans and so
forth, match up extremely well with what most Americans have for
their retirement programs, for their health care benefits and so
forth." Government benefit levels are frequently higher, which
provides an associated private sector savings.
Cornell Companies would train their employees to Alaska State
Standards and the national standards of the American
Correctional Association. Employees would be motivated and
perform to standard or they would be released from service.
Sometimes this is criticized as high turn over, but actually
their turn over rate has leveled off to the point that it's a
factor of weeding out unproductive workers. The company does not
want overtime and they manage their facilities so they don't
have incidents that require overtime. It isn't part of the
compensation package, which brings efficiency to the private
sector.
They have considerable flexibility in construction with
streamlined methods of procurement. Quite simply, private
operators put up quality facilities faster than the government
and speed saves money. Cornell Companies expects to be
operational in Whittier in late 2005, which is rapid compared to
government projections.
Government actually saves money using the private sector because
the state is indemnified against any lawsuits that result from
inmate staff interaction. Also, Cornell Companies wouldn't ask
for a change in per diem during the contract period whether they
were operating profitably or not. Expenses associated with
escapes are the company's obligation and they would pay even
though they don't budget for the same.
Cornell Companies is mature and has few quality related problems
compared to its early years. The July 2002 Harvard Law Review
Study is an endorsement of the potential of private operators.
In addition to saving money, the study finds the private sector
is able to use imagination and creativity to provide better
service and to work to reduce recidivism. Cornell Companies
makes that commitment, which is why they are interested in
teaming with Alaska Native groups.
He cited studies that indicated there are savings through
private operation. In the twenty some years he has been involved
with private prisons the industry has made great strides to put
credibility issues behind them. They are doing an outstanding
job and will continue to do so for Alaska.
SENATOR LYMAN HOFFMAN asked how many years Cornell Companies had
operated the Tundra Center.
MR. WIEBE replied his company has operated the Tundra Center for
5 years.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked what the inmates would say about their
services.
MR. WIEBE admitted he had not visited the Tundra Center, but he
understands the Department of Corrections is satisfied with
their services, which is an improvement over previous service.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked what Cornell Companies had done regarding
alternative programming at the Tundra Center.
MR. WIEBE repeated he wasn't familiar with the Tundra Center.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked why the company wasn't teaming with the
Native community at the Tundra Center if they plan to do so in
the proposed contract.
MR. WIEBE wasn't able to answer the question.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if they were concerned about Native
programming because they hadn't secured the contract.
MR. WIEBE repeated he didn't know whether they were or were not
teaming with the Native community at the Tundra Center.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked, "If you aren't doing that, why wouldn't
you be doing it if the corporation is concerned as portrayed at
the last meeting?"
CHAIR GARY STEVENS advised anything that is in the contract
could be expected and it would be interesting to find out what
was in the Tundra Center contract.
SENATOR HOFFMAN pointed out the previous testimony indicated it
didn't matter whether it was put in the contract or not, Cornell
Companies intended to team with the Native community to develop
appropriate programs. He said they weren't talking about adding
it to a contract. He asked, "Why aren't they doing it now?"
CHAIR GARY STEVENS agreed that was their testimony.
MR. WIEBE replied he understands his company is offering
Department of Corrections funded, culturally relevant, programs
at both the Bethel and Nome facilities. He clearly understands
why culturally relevant programming would be included in the
Whittier proposal because nearly 40 percent of the offender
population is Alaska Native. In fact, Alaska Natives approached
the company because they felt their access to the public
facilities was limited. This is why the requirement to provide
the services is written into the legislation.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked which Native groups he was working with in
Bethel.
MR. WIEBE said he was referring to the proposed 1,200 bed
project in Whittier where they were working with the Alaska
Native Brotherhood and had spoken with Cook Inlet Regional
Corporation. They also worked with the Kenai Native Association
on a similar project on the Kenai Peninsula.
SENATOR HOFFMAN said he understood that, but he was interested
in reviewing programs the company was already providing to
determine how the proposed programs might work. He advised he
would be checking with inmates at the Bethel facility.
MR. WIEBE said he would make a point of finding out what his
company was doing in Bethel.
SENATOR HOFFMAN said he could judge the projected program by
reviewing past efforts.
MR. WIEBE replied the point was well taken, but he openly admits
they don't have all the answers for programming. There are lots
of programs that work for certain offenders, but they're always
looking for programs that might work better. Repeat offenders
are admittedly a source of frustration and with respect to
alcoholism the answer has yet to been found. Alcohol problems
are not unusual in the Alaska Native population and it is a
difficult issue to address. Although they may not have the
answer, the company has made a commitment to work with Native
groups and move forward to make a difference.
SENATOR HOFFMAN repeated his need to know more about the
commitment made and whether it has been kept at the Tundra
Center.
MR. WIEBE replied he was sure his company started with whatever
existed in the contract when they purchased the facility from
the previous operator.
SENATOR HOFFMAN noted that was five years ago.
MR. WIEBE agreed and said they have moved forward from that
point. Funding for culturally relevant programming is provided
and finding out how it's being used is worthwhile for both
parties.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS advised it's a question for the Department of
Corrections as well.
SENATOR DYSON asked if testimony on both SB 99 and SB 65 would
be taken that day.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS replied the bills would be heard separately
and he intended to move both bills on to the Finance Committee
that day if the committee agreed. Some of the previous testimony
overlapped and he would try to give individuals who had not
testified at all the first opportunity to express their views.
SENATOR DYSON asked about Native support regarding the Kenai
prison proposal.
MR. WIEBE replied they had lots of Native support for that
proposal.
SENATOR DYSON remembered part of their enthusiasm stemmed from
the agreement regarding culturally relevant programming to help
the inmates make a successful transition back into society.
MR. WIEBE agreed.
SENATOR DYSON asked how Cornell Companies was doing in hiring,
training and retaining local staff at the Tundra Center. He knew
a bidding system exists at some state run facilities so
employees with seniority get first choice on job selection. This
sometimes means they get higher paying jobs in remote locations
thereby imposing a barrier to local hire.
MR. WIEBE said he would get that information.
There were no further questions for Mr. Wiebe.
MS. DEE HUBBARD, Sterling, Alaska resident, testified via
teleconference and advised she has been working against private
prisons for the last two years. She did not support a privately
run prison at Whittier because:
· No Alaska Statutes govern the operation of private prisons
· No feasibility study is being done and she questions the
$94/inmate/day figure
· Lobbying costs would be paid for from the bond proceeds
· Beds must be paid for whether used or not
· Training costs would be high with a 54 percent staff
turnover rate
· Required permits aren't discussed. Are they in the budget?
· More beds are planned than are discussed
She asked why the State of Alaska should build a prison for
Cornell Companies to operate.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS thanked her for following the issue.
MAKO HAGGERTY, private citizen from Homer, testified via
teleconference in opposition to SB 99. A private prison was
voted down three to one on the Kenai Peninsula. He believes it's
a state obligation to incarcerate prisoners and advised against
importing a failed system into Alaska.
SENATOR DYSON asked what percentage voted against a private
prison as compared to the percentage that voted against any
prison.
MR. HAGGERTY estimated 50 percent of the people that voted
against the prison probably voted that way because they were
opposed to any prison.
MR. DAVID KATZEEK of the Thunderbird Tribe from Klukwan
testified in support of SB 99 because it provides an opportunity
for his people to use an approach used for thousands of years.
They didn't have prisons then because they were able to work
things out as a people.
He understands and agrees that the State has a responsibility to
protect its citizens from offenders, but at the same time it
must be able to operate in a cost effective manner. However, he
hasn't heard any discussion about solving the very large problem
of recidivism. Within three years time, sixty six percent of the
people released from prison return to jail. This means something
is wrong and Native organizations and communities have the
opportunity to work together to solve the problem. "I believe we
as Native people have a way to be able to turn that around. And
I'll finish by saying this. I've contributed my time to a
program that's called JEPP [Juneau Effective Prevention
Project], which deals with young people that have trouble with
alcohol and drugs, suggesting some of our traditional customs
and approach. I've also worked with the University of Alaska in
the same ways on how do you interact with people. To this day I
have not received any kind of invitation from the Department of
Corrections anywhere saying, 'Could we sit down and talk and see
how we can resolve some of our problems?'"
There were no questions for Mr. Katzeek.
JIM LECRONE, a retired Corrections officer, testified that the
first priority in a prison is security. All police officers,
correctional officers, and probation officers meet the Alaska
Police Standards, which is expensive and is figured into the
cost per day amount. If SB 99 is passed, he urged legislators to
require Cornell Companies to meet those standards modified to
fit the private sector. He fully supports programs that cater
specifically to the Native population, but said Cornell
Companies is not the only one offering such programming. He
recalled several state run programs of that type when he was a
corrections officer.
SENATOR DYSON asked if it was true that senior officers bid for
and get remote jobs thereby precluding local hire in small
communities.
MR. LECRONE said there is "a contractual clause that requires
first consideration be given in transfers to the three most
senior people." It doesn't preclude new hires and anyone from a
remote community who applies and is qualified would be eligible.
SENATOR DYSON asked why the department had the week on week off
policy.
MR. LECRONE opined it's cheaper for the State to have an 84 hour
schedule.
There were no further questions for Mr. Lecrone.
MR. FRANK SMITH said he has 32 years experience working in the
criminal justice field. He advised this is a $1 billion contract
and in his opinion the community support comes from the idea
that building the prison would result in the Whittier Tunnel
being open full time with no toll charge. This was a
misrepresentation and now there is increasing opposition to the
prison.
He said there should be a fiscal note for keeping the tunnel
open the projected number of hours. Also, consideration should
be given regarding how it would be possible to move prisoners
and staff in the event of a tsunami warning. He asked members to
reexamine the bid process and also the lawsuits involving
private prisons. He thinks private prisons are "a bad idea whose
time has passed."
CHAIR GARY STEVENS advised the bill has fiscal notes from both
the Department of Corrections and the Department of
Transportation.
MR. WILLIAM DUNHAM, Seward resident and council member,
testified in opposition to SB 99. Spring Creek Correctional
Facility was built by the City of Seward, but they were only
authorized to build half the facility. They were never
authorized to build the second half and the facility is now 55
percent over capacity. Finishing this prison has to be the
cheapest alternative and he would like to hear it discussed.
GEORGE WRIGHT, Juneau resident, testified in support of SB 99
because "the original concept was to keep Alaska inmates from
going to Arizona." At the Arizona facility the water is bad and
Alaska inmates are housed with and preyed upon by career
criminals.
Under current regulations special consideration must be received
to allow anyone to visit a prison if he or she has been
convicted of a felony. Because of alcohol and or drug related
issues, this regulation affects visiting opportunities for a
great number of Natives. Private prisons don't have the same
restrictions. "Cornell runs half way houses and almost 50
percent of their clients are our people. And they realized....
that we had to do something to stop the revolving door." This is
a five-year contract with Cornell. If they don't perform the
State doesn't have to renegotiate the contract.
4:45 pm
CHAIR GARY STEVENS asked the record to reflect Senator Cowdery
joined the meeting.
SENATOR COWDERY apologized for arriving late and said he was
with the Governor.
MR. BEN BUTLER, Whittier Council member, testified in support of
SB 99 saying over 80 percent of the town supports the private
prison.
MR. LEONARD JONES testified via teleconference in support of SB
99. He works in Whittier and is a retired corrections officer.
Alaska would benefit from having its inmates back in Alaska and
Whittier would like the economic benefit.
MR. BRAD WILSON, Department of Public Safety employee, made the
following points based on previous testimony:
· 84 hours for corrections officers is straight time they
aren't paid overtime
· Sutton probably wouldn't vote in favor of a private prison
· A private, secret election in Whittier regarding the prison
would be more definitive than petitions
· Anchorage voted against a private prison but the Anchorage
Jail wasn't opposed
· Communities believe private prisons would save money, but
they still want professional corrections officers
There was no further testimony on SB 99.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS announced the matter was back before the
committee and he would like a motion to move SB 99 from
committee.
SENATOR COWDERY made a motion to move SB 99 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes.
There being no objection, it was so ordered.
SB 65-CORRECTIONAL FACILITY EXPANSION
CHAIR GARY STEVENS announced the committee heard testimony on SB
65 previously and he would appreciate hearing new testimony
only.
MS. DEE HUBBARD testified in support of SB 65. She recommended
adding the word "public" on page 2, line 1 between "new" and
"facility."
MR. FRANK SMITH testified SB 65 would offer more Native
programming than SB 99.
MR. LEONARD JONES asked members to look at the continuum of care
at Sutton and whether or not the programs in place are
effective. Cornell Companies has provided quality programs in
the State of Alaska since 1998. He opposed SB 65.
There was no further testimony on SB 65.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS asked for a motion.
SENATOR FRED DYSON made a motion to move SB 65 from committee
with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note.
There being no objection, it was so ordered.
CHAIR GARY STEVENS adjourned the meeting at 5:00 pm.
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